THE FELLOW TRAVELER AND THE GANGSTER. MARK WEISBROT INTERVIEWED CHAVEZ IN 2003.

The palm tree Weisbrot did not see.

A Caracas taxi in times of the revolution.

In 2003 Dr. Mark Weisbrot was already working for Hugo Chavez. Below there are excerpts from a very long interview Weisbrot did with Chavez. The questions were clearly loaded to produce the desired answers. Some of the answers look heavily edited by Weisbrot himself. This shameless whitewash is clearly not the work of an independent, objective, journalist but the work of a hired gun. I have included some brief comments (in black) next to each question and answer. The interview was published originally in May 2003 in the site of the North American Congress on Latin America, NACLA, an organization of “castristas”, “sandinistas” and now “Chavistas” who seem to support anyone that attacks the U.S. government.
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INTERVIEW.

Mark: First I would like to try to set the record straight. This is for a U.S. audience. I have spoken with almost all of the journalists who report for U.S. newspapers from Caracas, and they agreed that people in the United States have a distorted view of Venezuela -they think it some sort of dictatorship, and has a repressive government.
Can you respond to this, and explain why you believe that Venezuela is a democracy?
Hugo: Well we can try to measure democracy, just as you measure temperature with a thermometer, or pressure with a barometer. In light of everything that's happened here, is there a single journalist imprisoned here? In four years of government, can anyone point to an imprisoned or persecuted journalist? Has there been a single media outlet closed for even a second?
I believe that there are a lot of ways to conclude objectively that we are a democracy. We're not perfect, but we do have democracy.
I believe that our constitution is among the most advanced in the world in terms of its observance of human rights. It observes the principles of human rights in all the theoretical depth that implies [inaudible],
There's practically no social or human right that cannot be found in its pages.
Comment by Gustavo Coronel. The question posed by Weisbrot already says a lot about bias. He says that almost all reporters working in Venezuela agree that there is a distorted view of Venezuela in the U.S. (although they were the ones reporting to the U.S. public). He asks Chavez: tell us why Venezuela is a democracy. And Chavez replies: Oh yes. We are a democracy. There is no one in prison. No media outlets closed down, etc. Well, that was a lie. Even at that moment Chavez had already violated the civil rights of 23,000 workers of the state oil company, dismissed by him without due process and who are still waiting for their severance payments almost six years later. He would go on to close down and confiscate the assets of Radio Caracas TV, owned by a political dissident. Even today more than a dozen political prisoners remain behind bars, after being falsely accused of the April 2002 massacre that Chavez’s snipers produced (the snipers are free and some have even been decorated). He also said that the constitution was kind of perfect. Well, he has already tried to change it several times to suit his personal political project and has violated it many other times.
M: And you did in fact release many prisoners who were awaiting trial when you took office?
H: Of course. More than 10,000. I myself went to the prisons, and interviewed the prisoners..
A lot has changed in our prisons... We've set up computer labs with internet access in the prison, so that the prisoners can share their story with the rest of the world.
Comment by Gustavo Coronel. Weisbrot puts words into Chavez’s mouth: you released the prisoners that had been awaiting trial, didn’t you? And Chavez, the big liar, replies: Yes. 10,000 of them! And he adds: “I interviewed them”, suggesting that he had seen them all. First of all, there were not 10,000 prisoners awaiting trial. There have never been 10,000 prioners awaiting trial in Venezuela. Second, Chavez never interviewed them all. Third, the Venezuelan prisons under Chavez are, if anything, worse places than before. Hundreds of inmates die violently every year in Chavez’s prisons. In 2007 an expert on this issue said: ‘Humberto Prado, of the non-governmental Venezuelan Prison Observatory (OVP), told IPS. "Minimum standards of treatment for persons held in detention are not met, and even the most basic rights are violated." Venezuela, with a population of 27.5 million, has 20,200 people incarcerated in 30 jails, of whom only 7,440 have been convicted and sentenced and 12,660 (62.6 percent) are being held on remand. Between January and July 2007, "292 people died in prison, and 634 were injured, a 55 percent increase in fatalities compared to the equivalent period in 2006. In the whole of 2006 there were 412 deaths and 728 injuries," Prado said. In short, Venezuela’s prisons are among the most violent and dangerous in the world”. Chavez lies about his prison system, just as he lies about everything else.
M: Let's talk about the press for just a bit more. You have a problem with both the international and the Venezuelan press. The international press: the New York Times actually endorsed the coup in April of 2002. Probably the first time in more than 25 years that they supported a military coup against a democratic government. That was on the Saturday. And then on the Tuesday -this was their editorial board -they issued a retraction, but they never apologized. Have you talked to them since then? Or asked for an apology?
It seems to be part of a larger social defect in the US -that's a society that should really develop some kind of response to the intellectual battering by part of the media that seems to take place daily. I sincerely hope that some day the US public will develop some kind of mass critical consciousness, that they will remove the veil from their eyes and see the media powers for what they are. No part of the human community can live entirely on its own planet, with its own laws of motion and cut off from the rest of humanity. They must be critical, and make it their personal responsibility to humanity and morality to discover the truth.
Comment by Gustavo Coronel. In Chavez’s view the U.S. public is duped by the press systematically. He advises them to “discover the truth”. I think they have already discovered it! They now see that Chavez is just one more banana dictator with a lot of money in his pockets to buy followers.
M: Yes, Brazil has [media] laws like that too.
H. Yes. It's about time for a regulation of this type in Venezuela, passed through the legislative branch.
Comment by Gustavo Coronel. Here they talk about media laws. Chavez says that it’s about time they get one. Well, he did. It’s called the Gag Law. It is a jump back to the XIX century, since a journalist can go to prison for four years for “insulting” the president or his relatives. Who defines what an insult is? Chavez.
M: Can you talk a bit more about what your government has accomplished?
H: For the first time in Venezuelan history, a president has advanced massive child immunization campaigns against hepatitis B. We've brought down the infection rate by 15%. …..In the educational field, we've opened up nearly 3,000 Bolivarian schools, which represents about 10% of the total number of schools in the country, where children learn only after having breakfast first. Before these schools [existed], kids would arrive at school without having eaten breakfast. There's not much you can learn on an empty stomach! Now they eat first and then go to classes. They have mini libraries in each classroom. They no longer have to work out of tiny individual desks, now they work at larger tables with more legroom and where they can spread out, and have some ownership of their personal space. They can pour out their creativity, receive medical attention, they have computer labs with internet access.
Comment by Gustavo Coronel. In the case of the hepatitis B vaccination all countries in Latin America have it, with the exception of Dominica and Haiti. There is no need for a revolution to do that. In the issue of “bolivarian schools” with breakfast, etc, Chavez lies when he says that this is his creation. Schools like this existed long before he came into power. In Carabobo, where I worked fo the State government during the 1990’s they were called “Escuelas de Excelencia” and this was not the only state where they existed. In fact, they were a national project started by then Minister of Education, Antonio Luis Cárdenas, in his native state of Merida during the 1990’s and extended to other states. Chavez is a compulsive liar.
M: It was announced recently that the land reform would cover 100,000 acres, or about 40,000 hectares...
H: ... it's very beautiful, very clean earth. Your brand new landholder can take a few kernels of corn, dig and put the seeds in a little hole, and tend it with care. A few days after the rain comes, you'll see a leaf begin to poke out, and within a few months you have a stalk. You grab it yourself, tearing off the leaves, skinning it, deseeding it, cook it up and then you have cachapa [a corn meal delicacy].
Comment by Gustavo Coronel. Well. It is far from beautiful. Hundreds of private farms have been invaded by Chavez’s followers in Venezuela. Two million hectares of land have been invaded by Chavez’s protected squatters that know little or nothing about farming. As a result of this large scale invasion Venezuela now imports two thirds of its food requirements. The so-called land reform or land revolution has been a total disaster.
M: 1954, the US overthrew the elected President of Guatemala, Jacobo Arbenz. In '64, the US was apparently involved in the events leading to the military coup against President Goulart of Brazil. The following year the US marines invaded the Dominican Republic, another intervention against a democratic government. The Sandinistas were elected in '84, and the US spent the next six years destroying the country through warfare and sabotage, and even?
Comment by Gustavo Coronel. Let’s forget about the answer of Weisbrot’s dummy. In this question Weisbrot is revealed as the person actually generating both questions and answers. This is not a question. This is a statement that Chavez, the dummy, is asked to corroborate. Weisbrot, above, accuses the U.S. of destroying Nicaragua during the sandinista regime. Actually the sandinista regime was one of the most corrupt and inefficient in Nicaragua’s history. The Ortega brothers were a couple of thieves. I would not be surprised if Weisbrot argued that Daniel Ortega’s raping of his daughter in law for 14 years was due to his being hypnotized by the CIA.
M: Let's go back to the economy for a bit, and look at the region.
H: It's time for a new political and economic era… To hear the Argentine president Kirchner say the kinds of things he said yesterday, such as "Argentina will pay its [foreign] debt [only] if things are going well for Argentina." It's a tremendous political commitment,
Comment by Gustavo Coronel. This revelation by Chavez says it all about Kirchner’s, Correa’s and Chavez’s lack of responsibility. They will pay their debts “as long as things are going well”. If not, they will not pay their debts. It is as simple as that for these gangsters. In light of this revelation, whoever lends money to these gangsters does it at considerable risk.
M: And what role do you think that Venezuela has? One reason I ask this is that it often seems that there are times when the vast majority of people are ready for change, but one of the things that holds them back is when they think there is no hope of winning anything.
H: The Bolivarian process is at the forefront of this struggle…. I should confess to you that the exchange controls ARE a political measure. One must reflect on why I made that decision. I think that I even made the decision too late! Do you have any idea how much capital flight we've suffered since I came to power?
Comment by Gustavo Coronel. Another important revelation. Exchange controls are "a political measure". They have lasted already six or more years. Since controls are applied politically dissidents do not get dollars or get them late. Controls have been the source of enormous corruption. Chavez’s ministers of finance have been shown to be a bunch of crooks, racketeers and extorsionists and controls have served their purposes well. Capital flight manages to keep at some $40 billion per year, in spite of the controls, due to corruption and a fluorishing black market.
M: Another topic: it is hard not to notice the difference between the color of the people on the two sides here. The opposition crowds are noticeably lighter and more European looking than those who support the government. Do you think there is a racial dimension to this struggle?
H: Yes, there is racism here -it used to be more hidden and now it is more open. But it is not the main factor. And this is part of the picture in other countries, too -look who supported Lula, or Evo Morales [in Bolivia].
Comment by Gustavo Coronel. Crowds against Chavez include the whiter and the darker, the rich and the poor. Yes, there is more of the middle class in these protests since the middle class has been the main victim of Chave’z hatred.
Racism is at the very heart of ‘chavismo”. He has sown hate and racial resentment for ten long years. He tells the poor that the rich, white, oligarchs have robbed them and that this is the time for revenge. In this preaching he has been helped in the past by U.S. “experts” in racism such as Jesse Jackson and Danny Glover (who received $20 million from Chavez).

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Final comment. This was only Part I of the interview. I have not seen Part II but I can already guess what it looks like.